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Post Info TOPIC: New member with serious problem


New Pup

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New member with serious problem
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Hello everyone.  I am a new boxer owner and my five month old boxer, Maci, was doing great until yesterday.  She was "zooming" around the back yard, then suddenly collapsed.  I am in the medical field and had researched boxer issues enough to know it was her heart, but I guess I thought "this can't happen to me."  You see, I lost my 7 1/2 year old Great Dane with Wobbler's who had just bloated, to thyroid cancer in November....so I just KNEW I surely couldn't get another dog with serious health issues.  Well, not true.  Maci came back around within seconds, and after an emergency visit to the vet, we are now referred to Purdue for a cardiology workup.  I am sick with worry, my heart is broken, and I want to cry and punch something all at the same time.  Does anyone have words of wisdom, thoughts, information????  I know that Purdue will do the workup and likely want the Holter monitor as well, but what I don't know is what is the treatment?  Medications for the rest of her life?  Will I have to keep her sedentary, for fear of dropping dead of a heart attack??  And what kind of life is that, she LOVES to run and play.  I am so distressed, please someone help.

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Smitten by Boxers

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Okay, just calm down. Take a deep breath. There are 3 possibilities.
1. Typical over exertion
2. Cardiomyopathy
3. Sub-Aortic or Aortic Stenosis

I have known young dogs that had a fainting spell yet pass their heart testing. So yes, the fainting could be innocent. However you never want to assume that. As you have rightly said, this is a Boxer. And yes, they have heart issues. Going to a board certified cardiologist is the right thing to do. So do the tests they suggest and go from there.

If your girl has to be on heart meds, do not fear. They are typically a beta blocker which simply has the heart run at a slightly slower pace to help avoid the peaks which cause the fainting. The heart is a muscle that runs 24/7. It gets tired with age but even more tired when it has to reset after a fainting spell. Thus an affected dog will have more and more spells which are harder and harder to recover from.

Have you spoken with the breeder over this? They should be able to also provide insight and moral support. After all, Maci is their baby too :)

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  Christina Ghimenti
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New Pup

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I have sent the breeder an email - they are a very nice couple with kids who own the sire and dam but are not "professional" breeders. I did ask them if Mom and Dad had any health issues when I got Maci, and they said no. I also met her parents - very nice dogs, not champions, but very nice dogs, aged 5 and 6. Yes, the breeders will be heart broken I am sure. Thank you so much for your quick response. I will keep you posted for what they say at Purdue, and maybe everyone here can continue to give advice.

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Champion

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Hi
My boxer Stella, who just turned 7 last month, is now in the third and final stage of cardiomyopathy...
She passed out, walking into a room, when she was 2 1/2....she had the holter for 24 hours, and ended up taking 1/2 Sotolol once a day....she was fine.... up until this past June, is when we found she was in the 3rd stage, at her annual cardio vet check up..she now takes three medications a day, and runs, (in short spurts)  jumps plays, on  her walks, she's very prancy ...she's doing very well on the meds...she will go in every 4 months for a treadmill test...
I'm not saying that you will end up taking meds, as it could be a one time occurance....but, if your pup does end up on them, she can lead a normal life....
Good luck....
nancy stella and steve



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New Pup

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Thanks so much for the info Stella, Nancy, and Steve.  I am still waiting to get an appt. with the cardiologist - hopefully will hear something today.  Maci has been acting just fine - I just haven't let her "zoom" since that occurance.  She plays inside with our other puppy, a Corgi, and they go all out without any signs of her being distressed.  I am just so worried, and have been through so much just recently with losing my Great Dane.  Should I keep her leashed outside until this appointment, or let it be and let her be a puppy???

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Champion

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Maci's Mom wrote:

 I am just so worried, and have been through so much just recently with losing my Great Dane.

 

I understand your concern....

I lost my other boxer Bob(the brindle in my picture) last June, completely unexpected......aside from lung cancer his heart was shutting down...and we had no idea...he had no classic signs....again, Stella just passed out, walking into another room......

I asked the cardio vet, if I should not take her for a walk, or let her play...she said to me, "let her tell you how much she can handle" and she does...if she's not feeling spunky...then we go for a short walk,she will turn around and want to go home...lately...she's been kicking a$$ on a walk....as in I'm walking pretty fast, she's even been jumping and grabbing her leash....which makes me smile...

Should I keep her leashed outside until this appointment, or let it be and let her be a puppy???

Maybe call the vet,and ask what he or she thinks about that, I'm only going on my own expierence with Stella....and what her vet said..again, she's on medication....so I would really ask your vet....

Good luck....

nancy stella and steve




 



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Smitten by Boxers

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As an aside comment about the breeders. A responsible breeder will heart test their dogs before they breed them. I am going to guess the breeders of your Maci did not do any health testing. A dog can appear "normal" yet have a serious heart issue which they can easily pass down to their puppies.

While health testing does not protect against sick puppies, it will give a responsible breeder the opportunity to NOT breed an affected dog. As it stands, the true heart health of Maci's parents is a big question mark. I am hoping that if they ever decide to breed again, they do it in a more responsible fashion :)

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  Christina Ghimenti
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New Pup

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I know for a fact that they did not health test, and my mistake (and thinkng with my heart and not my mind) landed me in this unfortunate place.  They are a nice couple with kids, upper middle class, LOVE their dogs, but they are not professional breeders.  I should have done more research, I should have waited and bought a puppy from someone who is breeding for soundness (especially cardiac soundness, now that I know what I know) but that is water under the bridge, and milk on the floor.  My responsibility now is to do what I can for this precious baby.  This all came about because when I lost my Great Dane, I had a crazy dream that he brought me a boxer puppy.  I thought, "this is a sign - he wants to comfort me in my time of such sadness".  Selfishly, I was only thinking of me and how empty my world was.  Now, I know that he did in fact bring her to me, not for me, but instead, for her.  I guess he somehow knew she would need someone who could care for her condition, just like I cared for him with his Wobbler's, just like a cared for him after he bloated, and just like I cared for him when he was diagnosed with thyroid cancer.  This is just SOOO heartbreaking, because I fell in love with this puppy from the moment I saw her - she is an amazingly awesome girl!!  She has had no more incidences since last Saturday, and she has played pretty hard with our Corgi puppy for over a week.  No more zoomies in the yard off leash, though!  The cardiology consult is scheduled for Jan. 29th at Purdue, so I will keep everyone posted.  If she has to take meds, we'll do meds.  I can't see keeping her "sedentary" for her whole life though, so I guess I have to find peace with letting it be once she goes through the testing.  One crazy thing to note....after all I went through and the $ I spent with my Great Dane, I knew I needed to insure her.  I just found out that these insurance policies do not cover anything considered "congenital or hereditary".  The irony of it all.

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Smitten by Boxers

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Most doggy insurances are pretty much crap. So many exclude all the breeder specific issues you would actually need the insurace for. Once in a while someone will share their insurance stepped up to the plate. Most times they do not. I think it comes down to reading the fine print.

My fingers are crossed for a good report from the cardiologist!!

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  Christina Ghimenti
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New Pup

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Thanks Christina - We go tomorrow, so I will know much more in less than 24 hours.  Still no more episodes, and she is acting completely normal.

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Congratulations!

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Please let us know howMaci's Appointment goes......Keeping you in my thoughts.

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New Pup

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Well, so far we know that all 4 of Maci's valves are dysplastic (somewhat thickened) and she has a silent murmur.  No subaortic stenosis or issues with the aorta, no issues with the chambers of the heart or the heart muscle.  The cardiologist was not too alarmed, and said no conduction issues were noted on her ECG, but said that was fairly common, and they would know more with a 24 hour study.  So they placed a holter, and we removed that last night.  I let her "zoom" so that IF there is a conduction issue, they will hopefully see it.  She has had no further episodes, and is acting completely normal at this point.  Basically at this point until the holter results are back, we still know very little.  It was helpful to talk to the cardiologist and begin to understand this cardiomyopathy that exists in the boxer breed.  She seems to think Maci can live a fairly normal life if there is a conduction issue on a class III med like Sotolol, but really said until the holter results are interpreted, she really can't say much more.  Maci will have a holter test every year now.  So here's a question for anyone out there who knows....sounds to me like there are really no boxers in America that are not in some way affected by the congenital heart issues, whether the gene is expressed or not, it is still in the lines.  How on earth do you find a boxer puppy that would not potentially be affected???  I know that dogs and bitches can be tested prior to breeding in hopes that they would not pass the gene, but how do you really know about the offsping???

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Congratulations!

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While testing both parents for any signs of cardiomyopathy at the time of breeding is great and any responsible breeder will do it....there is absolutely no way to guarantee the heart health of any offspring. As with anything with a genetic component, it is a crap shoot. Sub-aortic stenosis can be ruled out at 2 years of age. Cardiomyopathy can occur at any time during the dog's life, so the tests only rule out cm at the time of the testing. Hopefully, at some time in the future, cardiologists will be able to find the exact genes responsible, and determine if having the affected gene always means cm will develop.
Recently, vets found the genes responsible for degenerative myelopathy, so any/all breeding animals can be tested for the gene. The unfortunate part though, is not all animals who have the gene develop dm, some are solely carriers. So in the end, it is still a crap shoot. Because dogs are animals who were genetically manipulated by humans to produce "desired" traits... the normal "survival of the fittest" no longer applies, as long as there are humans around to support the species who would never survive on their own in the wild. A perfect example is going to a third world country... nearly every dog in any given area will look pretty much the same, because they interbreed, and "survival of the fittest" is always at play.


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